Ave,
SO.........Digimob. I'm conflicted about these gents. On the one hand, they're doing the community a great service, as they've made texts that were impossible to find even a couple of years ago available to practitioners. That part of what they do is awesome. Classic texts, texts that are out of print and impossible to find, all put together in one tidy package. I love that.
But.
In their latest release, I found there were books by modern occult writers. Dudes who are trying to make a living, and that sucks. Nineveh, David, Lon.....it's terrible that these gents, who aren't millionaires, are having their works pirated. Yes, it sucks that people can't always afford to get their books. Well, too bad. Go to a library. Join a mailing list. Do the research they've done for yourself (unless we're talking Nineveh's stuff, which is likely in Arabic. In that case, you just need to save your pennies.) There are options. Folks won't be able to keep writing if their in poverty. No Fra RO or Jason on their yet, but it's just a matter of time. One more reason why being a Magician isn't a profession in our society. Bad enough we don't have people and State supported temples, Tibetan-style, now it's nearly impossible to make a living in Western-capitalist style as a wizard. Better love traveling and talking to strangers, because book sales ain't doing it anymore.
SO.........Digimob. I'm conflicted about these gents. On the one hand, they're doing the community a great service, as they've made texts that were impossible to find even a couple of years ago available to practitioners. That part of what they do is awesome. Classic texts, texts that are out of print and impossible to find, all put together in one tidy package. I love that.
But.
In their latest release, I found there were books by modern occult writers. Dudes who are trying to make a living, and that sucks. Nineveh, David, Lon.....it's terrible that these gents, who aren't millionaires, are having their works pirated. Yes, it sucks that people can't always afford to get their books. Well, too bad. Go to a library. Join a mailing list. Do the research they've done for yourself (unless we're talking Nineveh's stuff, which is likely in Arabic. In that case, you just need to save your pennies.) There are options. Folks won't be able to keep writing if their in poverty. No Fra RO or Jason on their yet, but it's just a matter of time. One more reason why being a Magician isn't a profession in our society. Bad enough we don't have people and State supported temples, Tibetan-style, now it's nearly impossible to make a living in Western-capitalist style as a wizard. Better love traveling and talking to strangers, because book sales ain't doing it anymore.
Frankly I doubt the benefit one will gain from a whopping amount of pdf books anyways. The eye strain may quickly overcome any perceived 'free' lunch.
ReplyDeleteYou can put PDF's on e-readers these days; they are very useful. Much more so than when i first started out, trying to read Bardon and Agrippa on my laptop....not a pleasant experience.
ReplyDeletePiracy is a crime, and if Occult writers keep getting their works pirated, there eventually will be none of consequence. Pirates will literally starve them out, and we'll be back to circulating pithy manuscripts (which will likely be talismanic! ;) ) and having to wade through scholarly journals which are usually more dry than a mouth full of sand, and do not come with the oral instructions of an experienced teacher.
ReplyDeleteIf the books are out of print, and fetching ginormous prices on the antiquarian market, I can frankly understand. I don't have several thousand to spend on a book, but I have found books selling for several thousand for much, much less, legally, because I put in the leg work.
Many sages went through great hardships to get this or that scripture, and made huge journeys to go see this or that Teacher, and we.. honestly.. have gotten a bit spoiled.
One argument is that a pdf is no different than hand copying, just neater and quicker. On that note, I agree, but a gift for a gift. Someone spent a LOT of time and effort furthering their tradition, and preserving wisdom. They are due their reward for their work. And believe me, most writers don't make all that much all told, even if you hit "Modern Magick" numbers.
Digimob is great technology, and it's not its fault people use it for jackassery. Those of us who are able and have sense to give back, will buy the hard copy, or pay for the digital. It's just the rough road before mainstream. Like when music first started going digital, it will take a while, there will still be piracy, but there will be more fail safes to see that a just deal is done.
as one who enjoys both book and pdf.
ReplyDeletethey enhance each other not take anything away
Example: downloaded DKMU's Book:
The Assault on Reality, a Field Manual
and quickly put in an order for a paper copy.
ITS today what one used to the library
or borrow from a friend. Today when electronic books cost almost as much as paperback, it is the publishers making the money not any writer.
I genuinely have mixed feelings regarding this as well.
ReplyDeleteIn one sense, we need to understand there are kids with no internet at home/ very little to no money who also need to the texts available; Not everyone has access to the brittish library and can read sloane manuscripts of original grimoires.
There are books that have been out of print, because they are not 'popular enough' to warrant reprinting, and without pdf tech would remain unread by the larger esoteric community.
I do however agree with you that current authors of magickal texts are f*cked by people pirating their texts. Untill we get some realistic, non 100 year old laws for how copyright should work we are just going to have to add a clause hoping that people do not pirate to the extent that the book doesn'thave any profit at all.
On the other hand, I own hundreds of pdf's of magick-related texts that I would have been quite annoyed with had I had to actually buy the book because they're of so low quality.
I also bought several books where I just thought *crikey, HOW did this even get published*?
The thing we can do is to buy the books in ways that benefit the author, and as authors we need to write books that appeal enough to the general public, who is, by the way still buying books, and that are good enough, so that if and when people get their grubbu fingers ona pdf copy they'll actually want to own it to support us writing more.
I believe the best example comes from online comics. I was fascinated by the fact that people could make money and have full-time jobs as authors/cartoonists of an online comic.
Everything they do is available online already, still they sell books etc and manage to have that as their sole source of income. Odd.
Well I have to say that I have downloaded some of Lon´s stuff but I already had the paperbacks. I prefer to have a real book but obviously you can only carry that many books on a trip. I think that the publishers should offer special deals for ebook versions of the books. I once suggested that to a dude in a book store explaining that I would not want to pay the full price for a book I already have but that if they want to promote their readers and ebooks tehy should offer a package deal. He seriously said they never thought about that but it would sound like a good idea. I think it is an obvious idea. In my case, I think downloading books which you already bought as a paperback is still supporting the pirate network but in that case I believe it is not damaging the author.
ReplyDelete@Argent: I agree that the digital can make a fine sample for actual book buying as we aren't so much assured of quality in today's market. It's the price of big business, sadly, that way publishers can sell as many books on subject X as they need to in order to be profitable and keep doors open to sell more quality books.
ReplyDeleteA lot of folks kvetch at Llewellyn for putting out a lot of "fluffy crap", but I think all the great books they put out are totally worth the "fluffy crap" you have to wade through. But there is little more frustrating than having your hopes and spending money just tossed down a hole for a shitty or redundant book. As long as most of us are moral about it and buy what we like and thereby "vote with our dollars" it should end out well.
@ Fra Pope
ReplyDelete....well, yes the publisher's make the lion's share. The writer still makes more money when a book is bought then the nothing they get when it is torrented. I think it's awesome that you go ahead and buy the book after, I just don't believe that's very common. Especially now that there are excellent e-readers available that make PDF's a more usable tool. You can jot notes on them, bookmark sections....it's getting to the point that ebooks have more facility than the paper versions, being searchable and all that. I just don't see a lot of people buying a double copy of a book they already have, even if it's for the best of reasons.
@ Fra Jow, Fra Argent
ReplyDeleteI do think Digimob on the whole are doing a good thing, but wish they would be more selective with the works they choose that are new. Nineveh's book of Deadly Names is barely a year old (if that).......perhaps they could hold off on copying a book until it's had a couple years to earn the sage who wrote it some sales. It would be awesome if more occultists would buy the good ones after receiving the PDF, but I don't know how often that happens. I'm going to guess not a lot. People don't connect to the mostly faceless occult writers they way they would connect to a band, or even folk with some "cool" appeal like the aforementioned comic artists.
I agree that a lot of the books out there are straight up garbage. But, even that garbage required time and work and investment from the person who wrote it, who may think it is a grand work, haha. I think the problem with this line of thinking is that there's no way to assure that only crap books are getting torrented, and who wants that anyway? I think it's got that fewer works are being lost to time because of Digimob, I just would like to see some balance between the writer's needs and the voracious appetite of the occult community.
@ Fra Archad
ReplyDeleteI've got digital copies of a lot of my physical grims and books as well; I've lost too many books to children and time to not back them up when possible. I don't see anything wrong with that. I've also got copies of books that I couldn't find--If I've made a good faith effort to acquire the book through legitimate means, I don't see anything wrong with using this technology. Artists don't receive any money from used book sales, or the expensive auction deals, so if a book is unavailable or out of print this is the most convenient way to get it.
Ave Fratres,
ReplyDeleteThe same devaluation of Art is happening in Music as well as in Literature. It saddens me that we as creatives have to re-conceptualise our career paths and the marketing process, and be on the lookout for growing piracy, on top of being creative in our individual areas.
When people really can't afford things (I certainly know what that's like), free access is a blessing. But there are always those who will exploit such things.
For me, the digital domain is a gift AND a curse for creatives - it's freedom and loss in equal measure.
Still, it's here and we must conquer it all somehow.
In LVX,
Darren
You know, as a writer and professional sorcerer, I am pretty indifferent to whether my publicly available books are up there or not. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer people buy them, especially if they buy them from an occult store, but overall I want to make sure lots of people read them.
ReplyDeleteWriters of occult books make squat on the books. If you are relying on the actual sales of actual books to pay your rent you are gonna be homeless in a few weeks.
Personally I view the books as advertising that I get paid to make. I try to write great books with unique content so that people will contact me for:
1. The Strategic Sorcery Training Course
2. Ritual work.
3. Workshops that I give in person
4. Self published specialty works
Those four are where most of the actual money is made. The books that you can pick up at Borders make sure that new people keep coming into contact with my ideas AND act as a major qualification on the resume.
I also have to admit that if I am on the fence about whether to purchase a book or not (usually an expensive book) I sometimes get the PDF to check it out. If I like it though, I always buy it.
Again, I am not crazy about the idea of people not willing to shell out 10 mucks for a books (the price of my books on Amazon) but I am not getting all crazy about it like some people. The most important think is that people read it and spread the meme.
The above is
@ Fra Jason
ReplyDeleteInteresting perspective-nice to hear from a gent likely to end up pirated, haha. I think it's great that you don't need the book sales to make a living. Looking at your writing as basically a marketing tool--spreading the meme--seems like a good model. I do think it's unfortunate that you pretty much Have to accept that folk will pirate your work; either accept it and view it as positive or be filled with rage and Still get pirated. That's a lame choice.
I want you to keep making great books. I want you to continue living as a professional Sorcerer. I want you to be able to feed those twins and send them to college. (Got twins myself!) People actually paying for the things you've created make all of that more likely. You've created a Practice that has a combination of disciplines, a combination of things that when added up make a livable profession of Sorcery. That's clearly the best approach, but why shouldn't you be appreciated for what you've made? Why shouldn't people value your content? Folk have a tendency to not value things they don't pay for. Not all of them, but a pretty good chunk. I don't think we can erase piracy; there's no closing that box. I do think we can encourage our fellows to support the folk out there making quality books and courses. It's a matter of culture. Not every person in our community has an evolved understanding of these things. Some folk, like Fra Jack, will run out and buy a book after downloading it and finding it to be quality. That's the best case scenario.....lot's of folk are going to just be excited they got some good shit for free.
I don't know, it's a complicated thing. I feel like we should be encouraging and curating our Fraters "out in the field" publishing and working in public.
Gotta adapt to the Aquarian times... Find other ways to get paid lets not blame the pirates. I thank the pirates for a lot of the stuff i learned. Not everyone can aford paying for those books/pdfs.
ReplyDeleteFra Baba,
ReplyDelete.....I think we Should Blame the pirates, because they're pirating. No getting around that, Frater. I'm not casting aspersions on the people doing the reading--once it's out there, it's out there--but putting other people's work out there for free is weak.