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Golden Dawn--WTF


I've been trying my level best to not talk about this latest eruption of foolishness, but good folks are being dragged through the mud (on both sides), and I've grown weary.

This whole thing is a steaming pile of bullshit. No one is trying to "destroy" the Golden Dawn, that's just silliness. No one is trying to become the only "legitimate" Golden Dawn order either. I'm sickened by this display.

Argue in a scholarly fashion! When did this sniping nonsense become the norm? A debate between honorable and wise gents (both of whom I consider Brothers in the Work) like Fraters AM and SR about the Sabbatian Qabbalah would be wonderful, if we could cut all the bullshit out. Quality conversations, ya'll.  Skip the vitriol, the name calling and the idiotic marketing methods.

Yes, it is idiocy. This "McGolden Dawn" nonsense is stupid.Ya'll. GROW THE FUCK UP.

For the record, The A+O's transmissions are valid, they are real. This isn't stuff that GH Fra LES made up whole cloth, it is genuine. Knowing that, I would suggest that my brothers and sisters in the AO commence with the "not giving a fuck" about what outsiders think of it. Who cares? Just do the work! And stop with the goddamn marketing bullshit already.

Also. Don't be surprised if people think you're a dick when you're publishing their papers. I mean....come on, ya'll.

This was the nicest way I could say any of this.

With love,



  1. Agree. I think if I was a newcomer to Magick, searching the web for an Order it would be hard to tell that the GD is even about learning Magick. Mcwhat? Nick who? SRIAWTF?

    Some dude wrote a book I'll never read and there was some trademark lawsuit back in the day. So how do I converse with Spirits again?


    Fr. IV

  2. The very best and most lucid post with regard to this whole controversy that I've read yet.

  3. Thanks for this. I hope to see more of the membership rise up against the idiocy. Any criticisms from folks like me on the outside only serve to reinforce the idea that they are under attack.

  4. It took me a while to notice but it appears that everyone that is involved in the GD flame wars are the various groups whose leaders make money from the order. Those that are quietly doing the work for the right reasons do not get involved in these things. Just food for thought.

  5. @Robert,

    I'm not really trying to defend anyone because there are things going on in the blogosphere that are undefendable and ridiculous to me. But I do know what I paid and I don't think $100/year for membership is really lining anyone's pocket. I don't know how they manage to even build temples with that kind of income, but somehow they do. For people selling products online, well you might have a point.

    Fr. IV

  6. I hear you but years ago Sam Webster taught me a secret to life, "People are weird." It seems as soon as money gets involved at any level people have something to protect. If you think about it, $100 a year from 20 people pays for a nice vacation. Though, if you're a lodge leader, it is likely well-earned. I have no idea if that is what the problem is but I noticed the paying lodges fight and the non-paying one's do not.

  7. I agree wholeheartedly. Both sides need to chill out and get on with the Great Work. The proof is in the pudding.

    -Aghor Pir

  8. A needed call for reason care brother!

  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

  10. @Fra IV, Brother Michael, Brother RO, Brother Aghor, Brother S.D.,

    Right on, thanks much!

  11. @ Christopher
    You are falling for one of the diversionary tactics that are being used against the AO by those who keep attacking our order.

    Diversionary Tactic 5: "Why can’t you just act in a more “spiritual” way, and ignore attacks on you. You should be above such things."

    This is often spoken by those who are doing the attacking, while claiming not to be really acting against us. It is often used to generate an opportunity for repetition of whatever shopping list of talking points is in vogue.
    It is particularly pernicious when used this way by sources within the GD community because if the attack were from the outside of our community, and not part of an orchestrated campaign cloaking itself as “just individuals” then it would have merit in some circumstances.However, the notion that it is more “spiritual” to simply ignore an attacker is itself bogus. This is an attempt to undermine the nature of the Office of Imperator.Evil must be countered. One way or another. It will not in fact go away if it is unopposed. Far from it - it loves to hide in the shadows!
    If we consider the case of Gandhi, his particular methods were in no way based in ignoring the attacker. They were a direct spiritual confrontation, done through non-violence, his spiritual Path.
    The objective of this diversion is to weaken the resolve of the Order, so that it may be more easily destroyed.

  12. @ Christopher

    Do you approve the content of the manifesto of the Order of the Rose and Cross. To you think that people who ascribe to this racist philosophy should be leading Golden Dawn orders? Are you so naive as to not see the connection between Golden Dawn leaders who signed on as leaders on this manifesto and the constant attacks on the Alpha Omega. Open your eyes, brother!

  13. @...."Nemesis"

    Hahahah--you can't be serious. Firstly, I know who you are, so please GTFO with this ridiculous avatar. It's insulting. Just be yourself, it's all good--I have plenty of affection in my heart for you and yours, and consider you to be good people fundamentally. I'm not here to attack you, but I'm going to call it how I see it.

    What you are missing is that it no longer matters whether there is any validity to your perceived "attack" or not--the foul methods you've put in play have soiled any moral high ground that might have been held. Relentless mud-slinging, sock-puppetry, have done more harm to your Order with this nonsense than anything Nick Farrell and his folk printed. Just the facts.

    No one ever said to sit back and take any "trashing". What you do instead is post scholarly, grown-up, Adept-appropriate responses that don't descend into the foul terrain that Zink was reviled for in the past. So many more have seen these crazy-ass screeds about nefarious plots against the AO, with be-monocled and mustache-twisting characters, than would have Ever read Nick's book.

    As for my "inactivity" in the GD--that happened looooooong before I became a Mayembero, and for a variety of reasons. What we are doing right now is one of them. Let's not get into all that. Anyway, who are you to say what I've lost touch with? You and the Golden Dawn are not synonymous.

  14. @ ...

    I get that you genuinely feel that there is a danger here, that there is an attack. The response is worse than the danger. Open Your eyes brother!

  15. You have the entire manifesto and list of Grand Officers of the rasist ORC (including Nick Farrell and the Supreme Maga of SRIA America here:

    This is not fake. It is taken directly from the original ORC website. Think again, before you judge your brothers and sisters defending our order too harshly.

  16. I get that you do not approve of all of the methods, but if there is ever to be lasting peace in the Golden Dawn community, then the people that have been stirring the strife from behind the scenes needed to be dragged out into the light and their true agenda exposed. Read that manifesto please carefully as well as the conclusion to the article written about the Golden Dawn by Gilbert there. Then make up your mind. You do not have to agree with everything. But just like Ghandi, we have the right to use non-violent resistance to defend the AO. In fact, we have a moral duty to do so. Your trying to diss our efforts is not appreciated by your brothers and sisters who are stepping up to the plate.

  17. I clearly disagree with your opinion. that the response is worse than the danger. We did not call Farrell's order a cult in a book designed to destroy the order. We did not publish his rituals. Now you tell us that we are wrong to stand up and say: "Enough?" You are mistaken and you are hurting your brothers and sisters that are getting off of their duffs and actually doing something. We will just have to agree do disagree. But if you are not willing to roll up your sleeves and help, at please get out of the way so the rest of us can do our job without further interference.

  18. You still have not answered my question. Do you approve of the content of the manifesto of the Order of the Rose and Cross. Do you think people who ascribe to such a philosophy should be leading Golden Dawn orders?

  19. David, you're cannibalizing your own here. Fr. AIT has been one of the very few reasons I've given the teachings of your order any merit. He has defended you personally to me on numerous occasions. He's expressing a call for dignity, something you've lost completely lately. Show some gratitude that there are still those who love you enough to speak the truth to you when you need to hear it.

    Or drive them away like a little fucking pussy who doesn't want to hear that he's acting like a bitch.

    Totally your call.

    My money's on you being a total histrionic cunt though. It's a mental illness. You can get treatment. But first you've got to admit you've got a problem.

  20. You too RO - you should book that therapy session real soon! You are seeing the GH Frater everywhere!

    why don't BOTH of you read the OR+C Manifesto and answer the question. Or does it embarrass you too much to see who you are siding with here?

    Until you address what is there for all to see, every word you write here is just adding to the diversion, and damaging your own credibility in the long term.

    If you think this is all over one book, you are very sadly mistaken. That book is just the next step in a calculated campaign. If you were either of you active in THIS Order, then you would know better.

    Disagree with the methods by all means, but your truth is loose a few cogs if you think that personal attacks on the Imperator (who is not in fact behind the Nemesis persona) are going to help you in your own agenda.

  21. @ RO

    There is no doubt that the McGoldenDawn® Witch Hunt is harming the entire Golden Dawn radition. No one is disputing that. The sad reality, however, is that they will not stop unless forced to. Your nonsensical proclamation that to just roll over and let the morons destroy our order would have been the best course of action. Yeah, right. The all powerful and mighty RO has spoken and the entire world must hearken.

    You are so full of yourself that there is no room left for logic. You need to get yourself a new reality filter. The one your are running on is seriously funked up.

    Here is a prophesy for YOU from Nemesis. The Alpha Omega will still be around, when the almighty RO is dead, buried, and forgotten without so much as a footnote in occult history.

    I have seldom seen so much egotism crammed into such a pea sized brain. Good job, RO.

  22. Psst. Want to know what is really going on? RO is having a fantasy bromance with our Imperator!

  23. God, even your insults are weak.

  24. ROFLMAO. Keep blowing smoke to cover your tracks, RO. Too late though. The word is out.

    RO is having a fantasy bromance with David Griffin.

    (Te he!)

  25. DG and his "adepts" have shown themselves to have all the smug arrogance of big-haired televangelist preachers, the over-inflated egos of the snootiest academic snobs, the stark idiocy of head-banging teenage black-metal Satanists, the empty 'we are the one and only true way' delusions of the most rabid born-again Christianists, the intellectual laziness of fluff-bunny New Agers, the tawdry bitchiness of a gaggle of drunken drag queens, the insular peer pressure insecurity of a high school cheerleading squad, the rumor-mongering meanness of the Weekly World News, the moronic conspiracy paranoia of the most insane 9-11 truthers, the witch-hunt mob fanaticism of a backwater church community, the mouth-breathing "fer us or ag'in us" mentality of a lynch mob of 'tea-party' rednecks, and far more grinning mongoloid self-absorption than any drooling hardcore raver on X swinging a glow-stick at Burning Man.

    They are beyond parody.

  26. ". But if you are not willing to roll up your sleeves and help, at please get out of the way so the rest of us can do our job without further interference."

    Yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

    As for the quote above, my brothers and sisters should have made a principled stand and offered good counsel, instead of getting caught up in this wildfire. That business with the book reviews was bullshit, and that email put me off of this before it even began. All this marketing black-magic--the labeling, the catchprases, all very Karl Rove-ian--are plainly beneath the HOGD/AO, and I will have no part in it. Neither should any Adept with sense.

    Also, sorry I couldn't call you back yesterday; my phone took a dunking, and I've been quite busy with work. Shoot me an email if you want to discuss in private, or I'll call you once I get my phone sorted.

    Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this business!

  27. I just answered Joseph Max foolishness here.

  28. Nemesis---I am surprised that you are attacking one of your more visible and worthwhile brothers.

  29. Care VH Fr AIT,

    I have always admired your approach, honesty and integrity, and have enjoyed our gentlemanly discussions in the past where we have agreed to disagree, and along the way I have learnt. Through this post and comments, you have gone up even further in my estimation, Brother. Thank you. :)

  30. @ Christopher, Robert:

    This isn't a matter of "both sides do it, a pox on all your houses." I realize you're trying to be fair, but come on - what DG is doing is really beyond the pale. Even if you think "both sides" are flinging poo, only one side is spewing toxic, infected, explosive diarrhea with extra corn.

    Look, I've defended DG in the past, like when he got dinged repeatedly for that photo of his ill-fated bit of "performance art" in Berkeley, dressing up like a Brownshirt. (The guy's not a Nazi, he's just a failure as a performance artist.) His book is in our Order's library and on our recommended reading list. He does decent WORK. If he didn't waste all his time and energy on being the Lyndon LaRouche of hermeticism, he'd actually get the respect he so desperately craves.

    I tried to talk them down from the ledge, so have you and Rufus, and others too, but it's useless. All I'm doing now is pointing and laughing. They've stoked the engines, torn off the brake lever, and are barreling their paranoid insanity express full-speed ahead and right over the cliff, waving their nemysses in the air yelling, "wooo...HOO!"

  31. I just answered Joseph Max' latest attack on the members of the AO at:

  32. You also conveniently edited out the part of the comment above where I showed I've defended DG in the past against slander, and complimented him on the quality of his actual WORK. But that doesn't fit in with your agenda. And how I showed that you guys may as well be copping this whole routine from Lyndon LaRouche conspiracy screeds. For example:

    "LaRouche Warns of Nazi Reactivation in Europe and the Americas

    Former U.S. Presidential pre-candidate Lyndon LaRouche, currently head of the LaRouche Political Action Committee, today issued an alert that the world has entered "a new phase in the mobilization for fascist world government, which amplifies the significance of the already existing Italian, Spanish, and French elements of the Nazi International." LaRouche specified that these Synarchist-controlled networks are behind the ongoing efforts to concoct a slander operation against him — whether from the United States, Europe, or Central and South America — in the closing weeks of the U.S. Presidential campaign..."

    Maybe we should start calling David "Lynvid LaGriffin"?

    No, that would be descending to your level.

  33. I'm happy people such as you are acting sensible, and down to earth about this latest debacle.

  34. That is why I decided not to join any orders, and stay a solitary wizard, practicing alone or with a couple friends is allot better then dealing with magical orders none since.

  35. Mr Christopher,

    How can I reach you. Blog of Mr. Aghor pir is gone.
    I need help. There is a ghost on me.I am mother and married.We have 5 children together.

    It is so important

  36. Hello Acelya,

    You can email me at

  37. Hi Mr. Bradford.

    I have sent you email again. Can you reply me please. It is urgent.

    Thank you again.

  38. AVE Honoured Frater AIT !

    Thank you, sincerely Brother for your attempt to balance and reason out the turmoils of the last years.
    I very much appreciatd your contribution to the HOGD Blog concerning Innovation in the Golden Dawn. (The wisdom of Maat speaks straight through you).
    I can only joyfully agree with every word.
    All Traditions should live and prosper. There will and always have been magical egregores that required the physical presence of a master or guru for initiation , and bonding with other initiates - as well as single individual beams, led by higher selfs on other planes.
    Not one of the two ways is safer or better. They both work together - not just in the bigger picture of the variety of different magical currents on this planet, but are also reflected in every individuals history of learning.
    (However ,we definitely will hear more about the failures than the success of self - initiation. Because someone blessed with a natural ability for gnosis and who has build a working connection to the higher planes , does not likely take part in self-marketing, the big cashing in and the flamewars that come with it.)
    A magical system is only the toolbox. Our Intention alone is responsible on how succesful we are with these tools. Like in every art, once we have established a routine with our tools , we want to get creative, and we want to enhance and optimize the tools. This process can lead to both - creating a more functional tool (because time changes currents ) or someone transforming a tool in its form but not in its function. - and honestly.. - Does a hammer become a better Tool because you paint it pink ?
    Well maybe it does .....- you might actually want to use it more often , because it looks a bit more like it's yours.
    Our western magical tradition is a bit like that hammer. Everybody has added and painted things on it - and that is perfectly fine ! It just gets difficult when someone thinks his tool is the only functional one.
    Golden Dawn tradition was never officially completed , from the beginning. Or was it ?
    Maybe the key to understanding the Golden Dawn lies in understanding it as an instruction to building your own toolbox.
    If you are able to build your own tools with it , you will be inevitably blessed.
    If you're intentions and your constitution is made for it, you will inevitably complete the great work.
    The role that the secret chiefs play in this greatest of all works might be a lot more universal and "allgegenwaertig" then everyone might think.
    What if - not one gnosis - not one tiny speck of light gets transferred into our physical realms without their knowing? What if ALL GD and even every other magical egregore - even the tiniest self-initiation is guided and orchestrated by them?
    Will we then realize that we all are sisters and brothers, and let each other learn and rise in this universal system?
    Yes.We can.
    If someone wants to explain the existence of " secret masters " as a psychological projection of a missing father figure - so be it ! Include GOD (blessed be his/her/its name) alongside. We that chose to be born into this realm ALL miss guidance and protection.
    That's why through the help of the most high we learned to help and teach each other to help and teach each other.
    What someone personally experienced or not (consciously) experienced with the secret chiefs does not matter ! We do not become better persons by experiencing or not experiencing their presence. It is only our struggle and our sacrifice that humbles us and grants us entrance into the realm of Beauty, Balance and Awesomeness.

    So Please , brothers and sisters - Let us be humble and respect and help each other to our best needs , so that one day we can help the entire world .




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